These messages are the accumulation of the messages that were sent out on 
the Blue Room email list between May 1995 and June 2000.  A large portion 
of the information is directly from Professor M.A.R Barker. When the list 
members joined during the time the list was active, they agreed to refrain 
from sharing this data with non list members.  When the list ended, it was 
urged that the data be made available to non-list Tekumel fans, and it 
seemed like a good idea all around.

I only ask that if you download these digests, or have received them in 
some other way, please respect the agreements the list members made, and 
refrain from passing them around and instead point people to the Tekumel 
web site, www.tekumel.com so that they can download them for themselves, 
and see all the other material available on the Tekumel.com web site.

Many Thanks.
Chris Davis
Moderator:  Blue Room mailing list 

Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 
CC BY-NC-ND

BLUE ROOM ARCHIVE -- VOLUME 32  [28 Mar 1999 - 21 April 1999]

931: Ssu in Space! Reply :)
932: Fenul Q&As Reply
933: Disease Transmission Reply
934: Various Subjects Reply
935: Paper Reply
936: Weapons and Physics Reply
937: Tekumelani Artist Info
938: CD Ideas
939: More on Guardians of the Sojourners
940: More Hlutrgu Rules
941: Tekumelani Librarians
942: Awards Response
943: Con Updates
944: Miscellaneous Questions
945: Hirkane hiTlakotani
946: Other Miscellaneous Questions
947: Renyu and Non-human Armies
948: Dhich'une's Flight From Avanthar
949: More Miscellaneous Questions
950: Clan Hierarchy
951: Kinship
952: More Weapons and Physics
953: More CD Ideas
954: Libraries and Librarians
955: Greek/Tekumel Pantheon Relationship?
956: Shiringgayi
957: Under People in Fenul
958: Pariah/Pavar Observations
959: More on Renyu
960: N'luss Girdles and Other Questions
*******************************

//931

[Moderator's Note:  The Professor responds to Andy's comments about Ssu and ]
[                   space travel.                                           ]

Good to hear from you again, Andy.

>[Moderator's Note:  Andrew Lorince comments on the Ssu and reports how EveCon]
>[                   went.                                                    ]

>Re. The Ssu. I never claimed they used space travel to get to Tekumel.
>The Ssu are accomplished sorrcers perhaps they had the ability to
>manipulate the dimensional forces before coming to tekumel, but found
>out it didn't work well there and had to develop space flight as a
>result.

As far as I know -- which isn't much at this time-depth -- the Ssu are
native to Tekumel. They did have space flight at some point in their
millennia-long past, however, but they have since lost that knowledge.
Perhaps magic is too easy and requires little in the way of raw materials
and manufacturing!

Your campaign game is interesting.

Regards,

Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//932

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker replies to some of the Fenul Q&As.     ]

>[Moderator's Note:  Andrew Lorince answers some questions about his Fenul  ]
>[                   campaign.                                              ]
>
>re your questions resulting from the game at eve con.
>you arrived at the village of ngalmessurakh (ssu crossing). the
>village head dik hi zhigau of the green kirtle clan handels all
>disputes in this village of about 3500 about 30% of these are of
>salarvyani dessent (including surrounding areas). there are no palaces
>here, a temple of dlamelish dominates the square with adjacent smaller
>temples of avanthe and belkhanu. other dieties are worshipped in clan
>chapels where all interested may attend services. there is no military
>garrison area except about a cohort of militia can be raised if
>needed. the third rate sakbe road/ dike along the river has maybe half
>a semetlkoi of guards.

I'd expect a Salarvyani-style village to have a temple to Lady Shiringgayi.
The Salarvyani feel that Dlamelish is only "half a goddess" without
Avanthe. Otherwise sounds good.

"Dik hiZhigau? How about "Dik hiKavet?" :-)

Regards,

Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//933

[Moderator's Note:  The Professor comments on the Disease thread.  What he ]
[                   says goes double for me.  Not my area of knowledge.    ]

Dear Chris and Gentlepersons,

I can't comment on this topic, not knowing squat about it! Interesting to
read, however.

Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//934

[Moderator's Note:  The Professor replies to Andy's various subjects.      ]
>[Moderator's Note:  Andrew Lorince covers various topics.                   ]

>epidemics: the people of polynesia and the new world were easly
>infected with european diseases because they lacked any immunity. in
>the more densly populated europe and asia people had more oppurtunity
>to be exposed to weaker strains of diseases and develop immunities.
>it is ineresting that the peaks of some new world cultures seemed to
>be about the same time as the vikings colonies in newfoundland. when
>the english and spanish first started developing colonies many native
>americans were killed by disease that had not even seen white men. we
>still don't know why some of the early colonies failed, some
>archeologic finds indicate disease and famine. it is interesting that
>experienced farmers could not provide enough food in land that should
>have been very fertile. then again some sources claim that the natives
>of the new world were diliberatly targeted with infected trade goods.
>then again still other sources claim that new world natives became ill
>because the christrian missionaries made them wear cloths which
>provided a good breeding ground for bacteria. as far as the lack of
>reverse infection evidence is lacking, perhaps the long sea voyages
>prevented the infected from getting back to europe. an interesting
>circumstance from my own experience is that while i served with the
>usarmy europe i was required to have annual plague inocculations.

Many explanations have been offered for the spread of disease in the New
World. One of my teachers, Professor Melville Jacobs of the Dept. of
Anthropology in Seattle used to tell of his experiences in Oregon with the
Cayuse Indians: he visited them one summer back in 1918-19, but they did
not permit him to study their language. He went away but returned the
following summer, hoping for a little better relations. He found the
village deserted -- everyone had died of influenza! The explanation for New
World diseases *not* spreading in Europe and Asia is usually given as so
much contact between widely divergent ethnic groups with different
immunities that spreading disease in Europe was a lot more difficult than
among the isolated populations of the New World. Also, there may have been
more mutation in Europe: tougher strains.

But what do I know?

>hlaka eyes: there has been a lot of disscussion about weather or not
>the hlaka third eyes gave them better three diminisional vision. i am
>reminded that many land based creatures as diverse as hlyss, dzor, and
>ngekka. and what about the ahoggya with eight eyes, the predators on
>their home world must of been something else.
>this also remindes me of modern radio and optical astronemy that uses
>arrayed tellescopes to obtain better resolution. in this case the
>effective size of the telescope equal to the greatest distance between
>the elements.

>obsidian: an article published in one of the scientific journals in
>the last few years disscussed the advantages of obsidian knifes. it
>seemed some docters were curious about how effective obsidian knifes
>were. they either made some or borrowed some from a museam or both to
>test. they found that they got sharper knifes that held there edge
>longer than the best surgical steels. when these knifes were used in
>surgary on living subjects there was les bleeding and wounds healed
>faster with less infection. as a consequence some proceedures now use
>only obsidian scalples.
>
>when i visited phil in minneapolis and was allowed to sit in on some
>of his gaming sessions i was told by some of the players that it
>didn't do any good to look at his notes because they were in urdu. how
>true this is i don't know.

I still occasonally use Urdu for important notes. Some players have
threatened to take Urdu just in order to be able to read them! Nobody has
done so yet.

Regards,

Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//935

[Moderator's Note:  The Professor answers Peter's question about Paper.    ]

>[Moderator's Note:  Peter Gifford asks about paper on Tekumel.  I know that ]
>[                   one type of paper is made from the Firya plant.         ]

>A quick question for the list - what do people use for paper on Tekumel?
>I've seen Tekumel illustrations of slate-like 'scrolls', and encountered
>something like this as a menu in a Thai restaurant the other day. Is
>parchment attached to these accordion-like plates or inscriptions made on
>wood or other material? For simple messages, is rolled-up paper used or
>envelopes? Are traditional-looking scrolls used? Any racial preferences?
>How about book-making processes? Would an artist use a sketchbook in the
>field?

Lots of interrelated questions here. The Five Empires use paper made from
the Hruchan reed, which rather resembles papyrus. Parchment and vellum are
often employed, depending upon the local environment and supply.  Flat
slabs of thin, fine-grained wood are sometimes used in Yan Kor and the
northlands. Only the Livyani have really delicate "tissue paper," however.
Mostly there are no envelopes, although scroll might be wrapped inside a
roll of less-expensive and stronger paper.

Scrolls are a common format for letters and reports: the Imperium employs
beautifully decorated silver scroll cases with fitted screw-on caps at both
ends, often with the name of the recipient engraved or worked in enamel
upon them.

Books are indeed used, as are plaques of wood (and even clay-covered
tablets fastened together). There is no uniformity, of course, and the
libraries are filled with all sorts of outlandish covers, bindings, page
numbering, illumination, etc. Whatever pleased the author...! ONe of my
players even saw a book covered in Ssu-skin -- not very durable but quite
pretty.

Books rarely have titles on their covers or spines. Titles are also
infrequent inside on the first page. You open a book and see perhaps a
paragraph in which the author details the reasons he wrote the book.
Sometimes this information (including the scribe's name, date of writing,
and other information) is placed in a colophon at the end of the book.

Librarians on Tekumel have very tough jobs. There are no card catalogues,
and the contents and locations of books have to be memorised specialised
workers. If you visit a library, you can probably only find a book by
accident or by consulting a specialist. Some librarians also specialise in
certain subjects, and one may thus encounter a "Salarvya expert," a
"history expert," a "Ssu expert," etc. These people know their libraries by
heart, and when they die, they pass on the knowledge to younger trainees.
If you need such an expert, expect to pay  for him/her!

Regards,

Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//936

[Moderator's Note:  The Professor comments on Marco's message about weapons ]
[                   and physics.                                            ]

Dear Marco,

Good stuff! I enjoyed your dissertation. My knowledge of weaponry is not
great, and so others like yourself are welcome.

Sincerely,

Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//937

[Moderator's Note:  As I am sure most of you noted, there is a new artist  ]
[                   drawing for tekumel.com, and here is a bit about him.  ]

As some of you know by now, the artist matter was solved by one Ilanish
Charea (he is a Mu'ugalavyani but uses *hi*Charea in Tsolyanu). He took the
post Peter was hoping to fill, and I assume he's doing well. Peter reports
some new illustrations on tekumel.com. 

Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//938

[Moderator's Note:  Lots of ideas and offers on the CD creation issue are   ]
[                   rolling in.  I have included a couple of general purpose]
[                   announcements at the beginning, too.                    ]

Carl Brodt writes...

I just thought that I would let you know of a new addition to Tita's House of
Games line of Tekumel products.  Beginning immediately, Tita's House of Games
is carrying Robert Richardson's Salarvyani military miniatures.  Check out my
most recent posting to the Tekumel Usernet board or email me to ask for
details.

Carl
-----

Mark Barrowcliffe writes.    barrow@dircon.co.uk

Hello. I'm interested in playing Empire of the Petal Throne over the net. Do
you know anyone who does this? I'd be grateful for any advice you can offer
me.

[For those of you with Web based campaigns, drop him a line if you have room.]

Mark
-----

On to CD stuff.
Brett Slocum writes.

>If someone is willing to send me the cassette version, I will run it through
>the mill and see what comes of it.  Carl Brodt, of Tito's Games
>[CarlBrodt@aol.com], has offered to distribute the CD for a nominal
>handling/royalty fee.

I have a copy of the Pronunciation tape. I could send it to Chaz.
---
Brett Slocum  --  slocum@io.com  --  ICQ #13032903
-----

Rob (that's all of a name I have) writes.

>A couple of months ago, I offered to transfer to CD the old tape of the
>Professor's guide to Tsolyani pronunciation.  I have the CD burner up and
>running, and the audio input works on some of my old scratchy cassettes.  I
>can't guarantee that the hiss and pop editing will transform crow into
>nightingale, but it may help.

I can offer some suggestions, as well possible alternatives to actually burning
audio tracks on the CD.

If the tapes are hissy, some appropriate low-pass filtering [gentle, I'd start
filtering at 8Khz, with total roll-off by 12 or so Khz].  If the language has
lots of sibiliants you wish to more accurately convey, you might push those up a
little higher...  but I doubt anything above 14Khz is not tape hiss noise,
unless it's "good tape/equipment".

Also, speech compresses pretty well, compared to musical content, say.  Even
getting it down to around 16Kbps won't degrade the sonics for the purposes of a
pronounciation guide [of course, if the source material is noisy/hissy, some
preconditioning will definitely help].

>If someone is willing to send me the cassette version, I will run it through
>the mill and see what comes of it.  Carl Brodt, of Tito's Games
>[CarlBrodt@aol.com], has offered to distribute the CD for a nominal
>handling/royalty fee.

>For what it's worth, a blank CD costs $1.00 and will hold  ~74 min of audio
>and/or ~650 MB of data.  If there is anyone out there who wants to share
>scenarios or maps or audio or ....May as well stuff the disk full.  Of course
>if there is a clamour, the Professor has priority: who knows how many rare
>8-track recordings he has has of .....Tiniliya!

Would you be amenable to electronic distribution?  I have fast sites that could
handle such a payload... or for those who just wish to download pieces of the
pronounciation guides.

With "silence squelching" and GENTLE voice compression, you could probably put
about 40 hours of tapes onto a CD with no trouble at all.... or make an entire
pronounciation lesson small enough to be easily downloaded by a modem user.
(120 kilobytes per minute of speech).

Email me if you are interested...

lord-of-hell@paypc.com

=Rob=

PS: Just how many tapes are there floating around?
-----

John Nowicki writes.
>For what it's worth, a blank CD costs $1.00 and will hold  ~74 min of audio
>and/or ~650 MB of data.  If there is anyone out there who wants to share
>scenarios or maps or audio or ....May as well stuff the disk full.  Of course
>if there is a clamour, the Professor has priority: who knows how many rare
>8-track recordings he has has of .....Tiniliya!

Not to turn this into a geeking session, but you can also cram a lot more
on to the CD if you use the proper compression technology. Macromedia
director would let you combine text, audio/video, and other stuff in a
multimedia format.

On the free side, Microsoft's Netshow (now know as Windows Media Services)
can combine .jpg images with an audio track, synchronizing both to time
with very effective compression. The problem would be that only the
Windows Media Player can play the .asf file format. However, the player
comes with Win 98, is easily downloadable, and not too big in size, so it
could be put on the CD. In effect, you could put a slide show up to go
with the Prrofessor's narration/language lesson. An image of Tinalaya when
they are discussed, for example.

With the ACELP voice compression codec, you could probably put images &
everything the Professor has ever recorded on the CD. If you have any
interest in doing something like this, and have any questions on
how...just e-mail me at aramis@obscure.org.

-----

Joe Saul writes.
>For what it's worth, a blank CD costs $1.00 and will hold  ~74 min of audio
>and/or ~650 MB of data.  If there is anyone out there who wants to share
>scenarios or maps or audio or ....May as well stuff the disk full.  Of course
>if there is a clamour, the Professor has priority: who knows how many rare
>8-track recordings he has has of .....Tiniliya!

I don't know, but I do know he has recorded some Tsolyani temple songs,
including a creepy Sarku one.

Joe

[Moderator's Note:  Phil played one for me once, he thought I didn't like it]
[                   but I was just very tired that day.  Hadn't slept well, ]
[                   and the chair I was sitting in was quite comfy.  I think]
[                   it was a section of the Lament to the Wheel of Black.   ]
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//939

[Moderator's Note:  George Hammond expounds upon his Guardians of the      ]
[                   Sojourners.                                            ]

Here's a little more on my "Guardians of the Sojourner", which I may or
may not have given to James (oops <g>).

The descriptions of temple guards in AOT and the Sourcebooks note that
while most temple guards are, shall we say, less-than-vigorous fighters,
there are a few who handle dangerous tasks, such as guarding Underworld
shrines.  I figured that these might be an elite, with a separate
identity.  

For James' "Plain of Towers" campaign I developed (discovered?) a few
particulars.  In the temple of Ketengku the distinction is between those
who protect the Temple's interests beyond the walls, The Guardians of the
Sojourner, and those who serve within, The Preservers of Sanctity.  

The duty for which the Guardians are named is the protection of Ketengku's
priests while they travel, but they also guard temple property in transit,
accompany scholar-priests into distant and/or dangerous places (e.g.
gathering rare compounds for drugs and antidotes), and protect the healers
who attend the armies of the Empire on campaign. The Guardians are a
relatively small faction within the temple, and do not usually operate in
groups much larger than a semetl (the notable exception occurring if the
temple sends a large enough contingent of healer-priests to accompany an
Imperial army). They are scouts and bodyguards, nothing like a temple
legion, and though competent skirmishers, are at best mediocre in
battlefield drill.

The Preservers of Sanctity generally fit the usual stereotype of temple
guards:  mediocre fighters who spend a lot of time standing around,
directing traffic, occasionally drilling.  At the larger healing centers
there will be some who are especially adept at subduing hysterical or
obstreperous patients...  There is some tension between Preservers and
Guardians over who should guard Ketengku's few Underworld outposts.

I imagine that some other Temples might have similar arrangements, but
many may not.  Ketengku is the Protector of Travellers, so this kind of
religion-wide group seemed appropriate.  Other Temples with larger
Underworld presences and less emphasis on the mundane world might have
unique individual units that operate only at particular shrines, perhaps
even including sorcerors within the guard units.

regards,

George Hammond
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//940

[Moderator's Note:  Peter Huston comments on the Professor's reply to his ]
[                   Hlutrgu rules.                                        ]

Thank you. I never actually used those rules and doubt if I ever will, but
the intent was to create some sort of framework where the players would
have to act like something other than people. I think I intended it to be
used for a brief series of one up games but never did anything with it. I
also think, in the long term, it would be much more interesting to be a
human in a campaign than a Hlutugru. I chose the Hlutgru instead of, say,
the Ssu or the Hlyss, because it seemed much simpler and easier to do. The
Hlutgru seem to be a remnant population who live in the swamp and leave to
raid and release population pressurs. They seem to have this twisted
mono-mania. The Ssu and Hlyss are up to some very complex manuevering and
scheming and plotting of some kind and I didn't wish to even begin to try
and hypothesize the details of whatever it was. I did wish to remain true
to the mythos without coming up with any "friendly Hlutgru" type scenarios
and stick with the xenophobic hate filled Hlutgru that spook everyone and
everything.   

Whatever.... I don't think I have anything else like that sitting around in
the notebooks. Thanks again. 

:-)     
                   
Peter Huston 
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//941

[Moderator's Note:  David Chaterjee asks for more info about Tekumelani     ]
[                   Librarians, and how they pass along their knowledge.    ]

Phil wrote:

"These  people  know their libraries by heart, and when they die, they pass
on the knowledge to younger trainees."

Sound  like  some bizarre Sarku ritual.  Does the trainee eat the brains of
the  dead librarian and thereby absorb his knowledge?  (Or the heart, since
the  library  is  known  "by heart."  I can't remember whether the Tsolyani
hold the various aspects of the self -- baletl, chusetl, pedhetl, etc -- to
reside  in  particular  parts of the body.)  Is his skin transformed into a
parchment  whose  wrinkles mysteriously map out a catalogue of the library?
Does  he  live on as undead in the dark recesses of the lower levels, to be
consulted  as  needed?  Tricky, since there is of course no talking allowed
in  a  library.   Perhaps  a  librarian  of Chiteng is burned alive and the
tendrils of smoke guide the successor to the location of the desired text.

"Librarians  on  Tekumel  have  very  tough  jobs  ...  If you need such an
expert, expect to pay  for him/her!"

I can believe it.

A fascinating subject:  we must know more!

David
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//942

[Moderator's Note:  Joe Saul points us to another award.                   ]

>I'm aware of the Gold of Glory, given to soldiers who perform outstanding 
>service to the empire. What other medals or awards are given by the Tsolyani 
>government or military?

There's a reference to another -- I don't remember the name -- in the Blue
Adventures on Tekumel book, as a reward during one of the military careers.
I think it's silver.

Joe
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//943

[Moderator's Note:  Andrew Lorince reports and updates on Cons.            ]

i took th e pre caution of also listing the conventions on
alt.games.frp.tekumel so the word still got out to some extent. i have
however noticed that the newsgroup has been very silent for the past
couple weeks.

bash con found one interested person. same with neovention and coscon
maybe. babel con to poorly attended to have made any difference.
i have sent paper work to marcon to run i miniature game and two rpg's.
capcon no new info. i think i'll just show up there and see if i have
tables.

three rivers game con has been canceled by wotc/andon and turned into a
games day with only cards and rpga.
castle con has a special membership deal bring one friend and get $5.00
off admission. bring three friends and get one free. contact
www.fantek.org for info. i'm looking for additional cons within driving
distance. (sorry carl the west coast is not driving distance, i don't
fly well it always seems that airline seats are made for a person half
my size.

i have spoken to persons responsible for cos con in butler pa. and they
seem willing to accept a tekumel track. if any one is interested in
assisting contact me directly at alorince@yahoo.com
yuninash hi'ancholbel
gover no of fenul
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//944

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers questions from Martin Howard on ]
[                   Non-human enclaves, Nluss girdles, a Yan Koryani diction-]
[                   ary, and the ratio of well-to-do lineages and poorer     ]
[                   lineages within a clan.                                  ]

>1.While I understand the need for nonhumans to form enclaves. I find
>myself mystified by the limited enclaves available - albeit some of
>these homelands cover huge areas. What I would like to know is, are
>there enclaves of Pe Choi, Shen etc. other than those shown on the
>published maps. One would have thought parts of the Forest of Gilraya
>would have been colonised by the Pe Choi, or the Pachi Lei - if they
>could encourage the growth of their sacred trees. Or perhaps some reason
>exists for the lack of such enclaves?

There are other enclaves of most of the nonhuman races elsewhere on
Tekumel. Pe Choi have been encountered both in the far southwest (of the
current four maps), west of the Shen settlement of Shugar. There are more
Pe Choi east of the Nom territory east of Salarvya, too. There are Ssu west
of Tane, which extends off the western map from the Plain of Towers --
including the huge, Black Ssu.

As for colonising the Gilraya Forests, the Pe Choi and the Pachi Lei are
almost a full map-width away from them, separated by jealous, xenphobic
humans who would never allow these species to grab territory! A few
families might try to settle in the Gilrayas, but any attempt to set up
full-sized enclaves would probably bring about swift "ethnic cleansing."
The Tsolyani have tried for years to persuade the Pachi Lei and/or the Pe
Choi to settle around Msumtel Bay and slaughter the horrid Hlutrgu, but to
no avail. These races are not stupid!

>2.I seem to remember reading somewhere that N'luss maidens wear some
>form of girdle - Mnor fur possibly? - that has some social/religious?
>Significance. The trouble is I cannot remember where, or, more
>importantly, what this signifies. I suspect it has some dire consequence
>attached to the removal of said object.

I can't remember where I wrote it either. The Sourcebook? The character
descriptions in Gardasiyal? Some article? It is true, however, and the only
dire consequence may be a large N'luss fist in the snoot! Anybody else
recall?

>3.Are there any plans to add to the published languages? A Yan
>Koryani-English dictionary would be nice, as the grammar lacked this!

I have some further plans for languages but not specifically for a Yan
Koryani dictionary. It would be fun to produce one, and I may just do so.

>4.I understand that a certain lineage and, more particularly, family,
>within a clan would be wealthier than others; my question is what
>proportion of an 'average' clan would be less wealthy/impoverished, or
>does this vary considerably 'across the board?' After all, the mighty
>Sea Blue and Tlakotani clans have their poor farmers!

Poor clan lineages/families probably outnumber the rich ones in Tlakotani,
Sea Blue, Golden Sunburst, Cloak of Azure Gems, and other wealthy clans by
about 2 or3 to 1. In poor clans the percentage of poor lineages is higher,
with only a few rich and middle-income lineages. THe rest are poor:
tradesmen, tenant farmers, labourers, etc. The poorest clans may have no
really "rich" lineages at all: e.g. Black Mat, Wicker Image.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//945

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker offers up some info on Hirkane.        ]

>	I have some questions about previous Emperors.  Which one of Tsolyani's
>deities was Hirkane Tlakotani devoted to?  It would seem to me that someone
>with the throne name of "The Stone Upon Which the Universe Rests," would
>probably worship one of the Lords of Stability.

Quite right.
[Moderator's Note:  Hirkane was a devotee of Hnalla, if I remember correctly.]

>Would it be possible for
>someone maybe the Professor to relate some of the deeds of Hirkane
>Tlakotani before he ascended into the Golden Tower?

I haven't the relevant histories before me just now. Hirkane did lead a
quiet, solidly traditional life, as I recall: He was a soldier in the
Imperial army, ranked as Kerdukoi (General); he took direct command only of
the Legion of the Mighty Prince in the raids into Yan Kor. He was otherwise
a pillar of tradition.  He is thus more memorable for the stability of his
reign than for anything he did before.

>What goes into the
>decision to place a prince (or princess) into the hands of a temple or
>clan?

This is a decision of the Omnipotent Azure Legion and the Court of Purple
Robes in Avanthar. Imperial heirs are scattered around to various clans.
Lineages and religious affiliations are taken into account, but *why* this
one and *why not* that one depend upon complex political factors that are
hard to sum up here.

>Could the placement of prince Dhich'une as a protege of the temple
>of Sarku have been a bone thrown to the temple of Sarku in return for some
>earlier service for Hirkane Tlakotani?

Dhich'une was probably a "bone" (:-)) indeed, It is commn practice for the
Imperium to offer heirs to clans of opposing affiliations in a "balanced"
way. This seems to be an unwritten part of the Concordat.

>Which Gods/Lords were the Emperors  since the Time of Many Emperors devoted
>to?  Have there been and recent Emperors devoted to any of the Cohort's of
>any of the Lords?

I shall have to look these up.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//946

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers numerous questions from Matthew]
[                   Pook about letters, the Weapon Without Answer, pronouns,]
[                   and a Tsolyani Font.                                    ]

>I have a number of questions, all of which arise from the campaign I
>have recently joined:

>1. Amongst the literate population of the Empire, do they communicate
>via letters, both professionally and personally?

Letters are very common. Almost every clanhouse has a contingent of
scribes, illuminators, etc. Some have their own paper-makers, who add
distinctive watermarks to their clan's products. For official use, there is
often a "sealer" who comes with his pot of sealing wax and candle to seal
and witness documents. Identity papers are frequent and necessary when one
travels outside the range of friends and family. Some of the wealthy clans
maintain runners to carry "mail" to other cities; poorer clans leave this
to be paid by those who need the service.  Clans sometimes send reams of
business documents by runner (an arduous task!). The Imperium sends out
decrees, commands, edicts, questions, etc. in elaborately illuminated
scrolls, often rolled and inserted into engraved and bejewelled silver
tubes.

>2. What exactly did the Weapon Without Answer and its effect look like?
>(My character witnessed its use).

Not much could be seen. It was more "felt," like a great Tunkul gong that
boomed right in a psychic person's  ear. But non-psychic people felt little
or nothing You already know what it looked like externally.

>3. Is there a list of the correct forms of address available anywhere?

Not as such. Look at the pronoun list in the Tsolyani Grammar and at the
dialogues there.

>4. Also, does anyone have a Tsolyani fontavailable?

Yes, read below:

[Moderator's Note:  I believe there are 2 on the ftp site.  A forward and a ]
[                   reverse.  (Usenanu is the forward, RTsolyani is the rev.]

Best wishes,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//947

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers Peter Huston's questions about ]
[                   Renyu, and the hostile races' army formations.          ]

>Here's a couple more ideas.
>Why can't Renyu be trained for war?

Renyu can indeed be trained as individual "attack beasts," They do not
fight well in formation, however, and when they are excited by blood and
noise, they may attack their handlers. Since these creatures are quite
strong and quick, they pose problems for the army attempting to use them.
It's also hard to come by a large enough contingent of Renyu to make much
difference in warfare.

>Also, one for Carl Brodt perhaps, the army books are good, but I'd like to
>see one that deals with the hostile races. Perhaps, if the people don't
>wish to give away too much of the unknown, it could cover documented real
>armies that have been seen somewhere at some time rather than ALL the
>Hlyss, Ssu, Hlutgru, whatever armies... You know, sample formations,
>representative and atypical but historical examples of raiding parties from
>these beings. Whatever. You might be able to include something on the Tane'
>people as well or actual independent Ahoggya, Pe Choi, whatever armies that
>have existed in the past.

Few of the nonhuman races maintain "armies" in the human sense. Some (e.g.
the Ssu) have some command structures, but others (e.g. the Pygmy Folk,
Hlutrgu, Shunned Ones, etc.) are simply mobs. The Shen do have a regular
military structure, however. The Pei Choi and the Pachi Lei use human
patterns and join human organisations, The Tinalia are sufficiently
organised to maintain "armies" that usually fight for Livyanu.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//948

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers a question for Scott Maxwell  ]
[                   about Dhich'une's flight from Avanthar.                ]

>I recall sometime back a post concerning the flight of Dhich'une to another
>plain where he dropped some people off who were rescues by silver clad
>tourists(?).  If I remember correctly, the silver clad people were
>worshippers of a Pariah Deity (One Other?).

Yes, Prince Dhich'une did flee Tekumel's Plane to -- as just recently
discovered -- a Plane occupied by the Demon Lord Ru'utlanesh.  He took only
loyal followers with him. The people you mention who were rescued were
*not* rescued by :"tourists": I think this term was used jokingly by
someone who reported this incident. These people were certainly not
tourists; they were from a race called :the "Silver Suits": who inhabit a
conflux of Planes out by the Pylons of Other-Space. They are quite
technological but have only occaional interest in interfering with other
interplanar adventurers. They do send out military forays, however, when
they think their interests are being compromised.  They are not robots but
living beings (of several types), who spend their lives in sealed suits
that provide tools, weapons, food and drink, etc. I don't know much more
about them since they usually remain so far from Tekumel Prime.


>It seems odd that people
>worshipping Pariah Deities would be tourists or would be nice enough to
>rescue strangers in distress.  Can you please enlighten me or at least put
>me in my place. :)

Yes. What place do you usually inhabit that you want to be put in?    :-)

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//949

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers more of Martin Howard's    ]
[                   series of questions.                                ]

>1.Do any of the original [or very early] copies of the scrolls of
>Pavar remain extant? If so, do they differ greatly from the modern
>versions? I would imagine that the temples present an ' Orthodox' front,
>on the generalities, but each has its own theological approach to the
>teachings of Pavar.  Would that be a correct assumption?

None of the original writings of Pavar seem to have survived, although it
is likely that one or another temple library (or monastery, or governor's
private library, etc.) may have one. Some temples would be very upset to
read their characterisations in Pavar's originals -- and hence prefer their
own "edited" versions! The Concordat has also tended to push everyone to
get rid of trouble-causing passages. *Within* the upper echelons of many
temples there are "recensions" of Pavar that are different from the
"standard" ones. These contain different phrasing and may contain
scurrilous insults to other sects. These interpolations are probably not
written by Pavar at all. The most different that I know of  is the version
of Dormoron Plain -- not in Pavar's scrolls but in a Sarku version of "The
Lament to the Wheel of Black." It makes Sarku's undead battalions into real
heroes, saving Tekumel from a young, naive, and slightly malicious Ksarul!

>2.Does the Bednalljan language suffer from the same 'obstreperous'
>verb as the language of modern Salarvya?

Yes. It's pretty tough, though not as difficult as modern Salarvyani. I
have two of the Bednalljan scripts  (High Monumental and Irzakh, a common
daily alphabet) done but have not finished the article I wanted to go with
them.

>3.As the islands of Vra, Thayuri etc. were conquered early on by the
>Fishermen Kings, does this mean they have a specific religious
>significance for the Temple of Ksarul?

Quite so. There are localised ceremonies addressed to Lord Ksarul, plus
fairs, folk-dances, distributions of food (fish and shellfish), and much
jollity. These tend to offend the stiff and formal Tsolyani.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//950

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers a question from Scott Maxwell ]
[                   about Clan hierarchy.                                  ]

>I am starting a campaign the deals heavily with clan politics and I
>would like some information upon the usual structures of the clans.
>Specifically, what are the titles and usual positions of the clan.  For
>example I've learned that dlantu means "clan patriarch," but is this THE
>clan Patriarch or A clan patriarch?  And what are the titles above or
>below this?  What about Clan houses away from the home Clanhouse?  Is
>there usually a main Clan house to which all the others are chapter
>houses?  Et cetera.

The titles are those given in the old Zocchi Sourcebook. There are other,
minor or localised titles, too. For example, "Dlantu(koi)" denotes "clan
patriarch," usually of the entire clan. There are then "lesser" clan
patriarchs at the clan's houses in each city: these are called
Dlantuni(koi). There are no titles (recognised by the Imperium) *above* the
Dlantukoi, but there are a host of titles *below* him: clan-council
members: nucheltokoi hidlanmu; clan scribe: durimtokoi hidlanmu," etc.
These are recognised functions and are persons of some status. The same is
true of the clanmaster's chief recordkeeper, his "sealer" (who witnesses
and seals documents), etc. No two clans do these tasks quite alike, so you
are pretty safe in setting them up.

>I have simplified this as the clan in question has but a single Clan
>House in Pala Jakalla.  The clan, Radiant Dark, is a medium status clan
>aligned with the Dark Trinity with aspirations to greatness.

I know of a localised small Jakalla clan named "Roiling Dark" but not a
"Radiant Dark." Are you certain you heard the name rightly?

>Renowned
>for their skill at cutting and setting jewels of all kinds, as well as
>many curious devices and trinkets that have been popular with the
>nobility -- the closest parallels are the clockwork devices that were
>popular in Europe in the 19th century.  Clan legend has it that Radiant
>Dark has existed since the Latter Times and that the Petal Throne itself
>is the handiwork of their clansmen.  Though the last is scoffed at by
>most, it is a strongly held belief by the artisans of the clan.

Can't blame people for believing what they wish. It is clearly known and
recorded that the Petal Throne was brought into Tsolyanu centuries ago from
the N'luss city of Malchairan, near which are ruins and monuments of the
Latter Times.

>In recent years the Radiant Dark has had a bit of a change in status.
>Seeing an opportunity for advancement, they aligned themselves with the
>now deposed Emperor Dhich'une.  Though their lot improved marginally
>during that worthy's reign, it has since fallen to a much lower level as
>the clans of a higher status do not like upstarts.  They have become
>something of a scapegoat in Pala Jakalla; that the high ranking clans
>show their loyalty to the new emperor by putting the Radiant Dark in
>their place.  Now, despite their fabulous wealth in jewelry and items
>that could only be achieved through the powers of the Planes Beyond, the
>clan is slowly dying without the patronage of the rest of Tsolyanu
>society.

All of this is factual. I know a jewel-merchant in Roiling Dark, and he
tells this same story almost verbatim.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//951

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker answers another question from Scott on]
[                   kinship. (Not one of the Professor's favorite topics!) ]

>The Tsolyani seem to use the Iroquois system of kinship in where your
>father's brothers are your fathers and your mother's sisters are your
>mothers.  In addition, all of the children of your "mothers" and
>"fathers" are your siblings.  My question is how far does this extend?

>I'll use the following example:
>
>1. Tom and Dick are brothers (in the western or "Eskimo" system of
>kinship); they share the same genetic father and mother.
>
>2.  Tom has a son names Harry, and Dick has a son named Ralph.  Harry
>and Ralph are brothers; they share Tom and Dick as fathers. (In the
>"Eskimo system" Harry and Ralph would be [first] cousins.)
>
>3.  Now Ralph has a son named Bob, and Ralph has a son named Peter.
>
>Would Bob and Peter still be brothers in the Tsolyanu system of kinship?
> And, by extension, would Bob and Peter share Tom Harry and Ralph as
>fathers?  Could this extend indefinitely or is there some sort of cut
>off (say the fifth generation)?

The kinship tie is becoming a little vague by the time it reaches Bob and
Peter. If these two grew up together, it might be maintained: "we are
brothers -- of a sort." If the children are brought up away from one
another, chances are that they would be identified as "related" and
"clan-cousins" but not actual "brothers." This is much as I might be
"related" to a cousin here. Other Americans carry this "cousin"
relationship on down for at least another generation.

>As a corollary, do the other nationalities (of humans) on Tekumel use
>this same system?

The Mu'ugalavyani certainly do. Yan Kor and the north are less fixed about
"distant" clan relations.  The Livyani follow a rather English-style
kinship system, while the Salarvyani have other features too numerous --
and odd -- to describe here.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//952

[Moderator's Note:  Marco Subias asks for some more info on the weapons of ]
[                   Tekumel.  Andrew Lorince has two copies of Flamesong   ]
[                   available.  Email him directly at alorince@yahoo.com.  ]

[                   My taxes are finally done.  I am looking to change the ]
[                   Blue Room a bit, and am speaking with Bob Alberti to   ]
[                   determine a way we can add more moderators, and make   ]
[                   the submission process a bit easier, so that messages  ]
[                   will flow better when I am so busy.  I'll keep you in- ]
[                   formed.  One goal is to make the list oriented to      ]
[                   tekumel.com.  One of the first things to appear there  ]
[                   will probably be the digests.  I'll let you know when I]
[                   know.    Chris   952-959 tonight, 960-966 tomorrow     ]

Professor Barker said.
>Good stuff! I enjoyed your dissertation. My knowledge of weaponry is not
>great, and so others like yourself are welcome.

Thank you very much. I hoped that what I wrote was not too off topic.

One question though. I mentioned that the epee and the rapier were not 
weapons of war, but rather blades carried for civil duels and self 
defense. Are there weapons on Tekumel that are not awkward to carry, 
but carried only in warfare, or weapons only carried off the field of 
battle? If so, who might use such weapons.

Also, I take it that Chlen hide swords are usually pictured with very 
wide and elaborate blades because the swords are lighter than the same 
size metal sword would be, and theus have to be greater in volume in 
order to have the impact of a denser sword? Or am I all wet here?

I have also heard (no expert here) that bronze swords were as much crushing
weapons as cutting ones, due to an inability to hold a good edge, that some
weapons cut by chopping (like machetes or axes) with through the quick 
impact of weight, and some cut by slashing (large knives and possibly 
katanas). Any speculation on what way is most similar to the way Chlen hide 
swords cut?

Marco

PS, a slight correction and clarification. Early rapiers (second half 
of the sixteenth century) were as much cutting as thrusting weapons, 
and could reach (or even possibly exceed) fifty inches in length, and 
thus could be as heavy as broadswords or backswords. As time passed 
they became more suited for thrusting, and lighter. Still, they were 
still heavier than modern foils, and parrying with another weapon or 
object was standard until the extremely light and purely point oriented 
smallsword (resembling the epee)  became the weapon of choice for most
gentlemen. I just wish to clarify that the rapiers and broadswords I 
found the same in weight were from the earlier period, and that in later 
times military swords and civilian rapiers did clearly differ in weight, 
though nowhere near as much as a foil and rapier would. Real rapiers 
were clearly different in weight, balance, and in handling 
characteristics from modern fencing weapons. Sorry for redundancy, but 
I can be a stickler for details.
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//953

[Moderator's Note:  Rob offers some more CD ideas.  I agree with him.     ]
John Nowicki writes.

>Not to turn this into a geeking session, but you can also cram a lot more
>on to the CD if you use the proper compression technology. Macromedia
>director would let you combine text, audio/video, and other stuff in a
>multimedia format.

>On the free side, Microsoft's Netshow (now know as Windows Media Services)
>can combine .jpg images with an audio track, synchronizing both to time
>with very effective compression. The problem would be that only the
>Windows Media Player can play the .asf file format. However, the player
>comes with Win 98, is easily downloadable, and not too big in size, so it
>could be put on the CD. In effect, you could put a slide show up to go
>with the Prrofessor's narration/language lesson. An image of Tinalaya when
>they are discussed, for example.

>With the ACELP voice compression codec, you could probably put images &
>everything the Professor has ever recorded on the CD. If you have any
>interest in doing something like this, and have any questions on
>how...just e-mail me at aramis@obscure.org.

May I humbly request using a technology which doesn't "orphan" any 
particular platform?  It might shock people out there, but not everyone 
on the planet uses Microsoft Windows.  There are many technologies which 
don't rely on proprietary Microsoft products [which offer no technical 
advantages over those which can be enjoyed by nearly every user on the 
planet].  ACELP might just be a bit too aggressive a compressor, for 
an "alien language" -- its designers had specific speech models and 
characteristics in mind when they developed it.  I myself have never 
heard Tsolyani et al ever spoken, so I have zero idea of what to expect 
in this regard.  I was suggesting "less radical" compressors to better 
preserve every subtle nuance of the (potentially) bizarre sounds of the 
language.  Of course, I haven't heard these tapes either - perhaps I'm 
being way to optimistic about their sound quality to begin with. :)

Anyhow... there are many easy ways to do this for multi-platform 
deployment, even providing for web and/or ftp site deployment as a 
service.  If anyone needs space on prime Exodus.net core oc-3, with 
gigabytes of storage, lemme know, I'll host the end-products at no 
charge to anybody, with no banners, no crap-artist click-throughs, 
or "games".  There should be zero-cost distribution for all of this.  

=Robert=
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//954

[Moderator's Note:  Professor Barker comments some more on Tekumelani   ]
[                   libraries and librarians.                           ]

>Phil wrote:
>
>"These  people  know their libraries by heart, and when they die, they pass
>on the knowledge to younger trainees."
>
>Sound  like  some bizarre Sarku ritual.  Does the trainee eat the brains of
>the  dead librarian and thereby absorb his knowledge?  (Or the heart, since
>the  library  is  known  "by heart."  I can't remember whether the Tsolyani
>hold the various aspects of the self -- baletl, chusetl, pedhetl, etc -- to
>reside  in  particular  parts of the body.)  Is his skin transformed into a
>parchment  whose  wrinkles mysteriously map out a catalogue of the library?
>Does  he  live on as undead in the dark recesses of the lower levels, to be
>consulted  as  needed?  Tricky, since there is of course no talking allowed
>in  a  library.   Perhaps  a  librarian  of Chiteng is burned alive and the
>tendrils of smoke guide the successor to the location of the desired text.

Okay, so I made a highly amusing linguistic goof. I meant ":*before*  they
die," mot "*when* they die." I have only myself to blame for your taking the
trouble to point out my error! No problem. Your letter *is* funny.

>"Librarians  on  Tekumel  have  very  tough  jobs  ...  If you need such an
>expert, expect to pay  for him/her!"
>
>I can believe it.

Absolutely.  An expert librarian in one of the great libraries (Bey Su,
Avanthar, Jakalla, Tumissa, Thraya) can cost you a hundred Kaitars or more
to find relevant titles on an esoteric topic in the library. You will be
allowed to read "open" (non-magical and non-dangerous) books and copy them
(or hire a scribe to do so), but you can't check them out. You can
sometimes get to read sorceroud books, if you bribe the librarian to go
someplace while you do it. Do not steal books or scrolls -- as usual, this
is an impaling offence in Tsolyanu.

>A fascinating subject:  we must know more!

What more do you want to know? I'll help -- if you forgive my casual editing!

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//955

[Moderator's Note:  Joe Zottola sends this message about the Greek Pantheon]
[                   and its relationship to the Tsolyani Pantheon.  The    ]
[                   Professor comments.                                    ]


Dear Joe,

>Assuming the Tsyolyani culture is more advanced than the Greek culture.
>would it be plausable to state that the Tsyolyani culture is more
>intelectually able to comprehend the possiblities of magic than the Greek
>culture was?

Anthropologists (especially the "politically correct" varieties) will
lambaste you royally for your use of the value-term "advanced." In any
case, the pattern of Tekumelani magic would be quite beyond the
comprehension and world-view of the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and whoever
else. There is really little comparison between the forces of the Planes
Beyond and anything like the Elyssian Feilds, Tartarus, or the world of the
Duat.

>If this is true then could the absence of an understanding of magic
>contributed to the fall of the Greek pantheon?

I doubt it. You've compared apples to oranges here -- and come up with
grapefruit, methinks!

>If this is the case then is there is a correlation between the Greek
>Pantheon and The Pantheon of Pavar? if there is here is how i think they
>might match up...

>Zeus-Hnalla                  Ares-Vimuhla
>Hera-Huru                    Hephestus-Thumis/Ksarul
>Athena-Avanthe               Hades-Sarku/Belkenu
>Apollo-Karakan               Aphrodite/Dlamelish

I doubt if there are any real correlation. The Greek deities always remind
me of bad little adolescents, rather than "Gods." There is nothing much I
want to *worship* in the depictions, conceptions, and actions of some of
these "divine beings." Remember, some of the Greek gods thought nothing of
raping, romping, or rampaging around with human women or men. This lack of
distance and solemnity leaves me somewhat cold.

>....so I think there is some validity to this line of thought...and the
>Christian Mythos is the Pariah Deities:

>The one who is-God
>The one other-Jesus/son
>She who cannot be named-the holy ghost

You're stretching it...!

>The Greek Mythos disappeared with the rise of Christianity, who is to say
>that when the Goddess and company capture a plane the don't destroy the
>plane but instead destroy the Magical essence of the plane....Thus forcing
>the previous Mythos to vacate due to a lack of their Magical Energy......we
>do know that different Deities use different energies for their works,
>perhaps the energies they use is keyed to them & their Mythos.....
>I am probably way of base but i thought i would ask any way....
>later Joe

You ask some reasonable questions. The problem is in proving your
theoretical assertions.

Regards,
Phil
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//956

[Moderator's Note:  Andy Lorince responds to the Professor's comments on  ]
[                   Fenul.                                                ]
>>re your questions resulting from the game at eve con.
>>you arrived at the village of ngalmessurakh (ssu crossing). the
>>village head dik hi zhigau of the green kirtle clan handels all
>>disputes in this village of about 3500 about 30% of these are of
>>salarvyani dessent (including surrounding areas).  there are no palaces
>>here, a temple of dlamelish dominates the square with adjacent smaller
>>temples of avanthe and belkhanu. other dieties are worshipped in clan
>>chapels where all interested may attend services.  there is no military
>>garrison area except about a cohort of militia can be raised if
>>needed. the third rate sakbe road/ dike along the river has maybe half
>>a semetlkoi of guards.

>I'd expect a Salarvyani-style village to have a temple to Lady Shiringgayi.
>The Salarvyani feel that Dlamelish is only "half a goddess" without
>Avanthe. Otherwise sounds good.

I suspect that since the two temples are only about 60 yards appart the
separation is only for appearance and that they are joined below the
surface.

> "Dik hiZhigau? How about "Dik hiKavet?" :-)
the luck of the roll and that old tome tsolyani names without tears.

glad you injoyed it.  andy
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//957

[Moderator's Note:  An interesting event has occured in Andy Lorince's Fenul]
[                   campaign.                                               ]

About a month ago a group of seredula entered the place of the realm in
fenul and demanded, in perfect tsolyani,that they be granted 
citizenship based on being born within the tsolyani  empire. When
questioned about this they indicated that ssu actions were decimating
their numbers and that they wished assigned to a legion that would
enable them to fight the ssu beter. it is known that these are not
considered to inteligent or civilized and on that basis could not be
granted citizen ship. it would appear that a substantual inducement was
also offered as this report reached me in only a week. could some
guidance be offered?

yuninash hi'ancholbel
governor of fenul.

i'm aware of the under people movement from man of gold and aot beyond
the lands of tsolyanu. Could this movement have progressed to this
point?
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//958

[Moderator's Note:  John Nowicki shares some observations about the Pariah ]
[                   deities and Pavar's Pantheon.                          ]

>>tourists(?).  If I remember correctly, the silver clad people were
>>worshippers of a Pariah Deity (One Other?).

>tourists; they were from a race called :the "Silver Suits": who inhabit a
>conflux of Planes out by the Pylons of Other-Space. They are quite
>technological but have only occaional interest in interfering with other
>interplanar adventurers. They do send out military forays, however, when
>they think their interests are being compromised.  They are not robots but
>living beings (of several types), who spend their lives in sealed suits
>that provide tools, weapons, food and drink, etc. I don't know much more
>about them since they usually remain so far from Tekumel Prime.

Hmmm...this leads me to one of my theories on things. It strikes me that
(at least some) of the Pariah Dieties may not be as intrinsically inimical
as has been reported. I mean, the Stability/Change bunch are two sides of
a very limited spectrum of options, in that neither really wants things to
change too much. Sure, political systems may slightly adjust, some other
peripheral areas...but radical change, such as total desruction, or the
wrenching socio-political effects of technologogy are right out on both
sides.

Meanwhile, at almost every instance of an encounter with Pariahs, or their
supporters, we see something very different. Very technological Silver
Suits who don't behave in a irrational destructive mode are associated
with the Pariahs. In Man of Gold, we have a servitor bring what appears to
be a devastating (and suspiciously similar to technological) weapon to
bear that has the potential to radically change the Five Empires. The One
Other actually aids the other nine in capturing Ksarul. Flamesong has a
servitor that, while called a mage, has a Mihalli controlling structure
that has a suspicious resemblence to a scientists lab (and he personally
has a very rational/scientific mindset). There are more of the like.

So, are the Pariahs these nihilistic, destructive, inimical beings that
have been portrayed, or something else? Could they, and their attitudes be
inimical to _the long established way Tekumeli way of life_? After all,
technology has two edges...it has caused a radical change in societies for
the better, allowing for more efficient developemnt of resources and
spread of information (with the corresponding socio-political effects),
lonfger lives, etc... But Hiroshima became a radioactive hell pit, and
entire cultures & societies that couldn't adapt fast enough died outright.

Is it possible that the Pariahs represent (or are trying to propagate)this
creative/destructive force? After all, this would be a major threat to
almost every important force in Tekumel, from the Gods to the political
institutions. I'd be pumping the propaganda machine if I were them.

Just rampant speculation...I don't know if the Professor would care to
comment on this, if for no other reason that to state how off base this
all is.
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
The Blue Room's FTP site:  http://nexus.prin.edu or  ftp://nexus.prin.edu
Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//959

[Moderator's Note:  David Bailey comments on Renyu.                        ]
 
>>Here's a couple more ideas.
>>Why can't Renyu be trained for war?

>Renyu can indeed be trained as individual "attack beasts," They do 
>not fight well in formation, however, and when they are excited by 
>blood and noise, they may attack their handlers. Since these 
>creatures are quite strong and quick, they pose problems for the 
>army attempting to use them.

Midori Ito had a house renyu at his country lodge (actually a small 
vinyard).  After four years of training it was still more dangerous to 
him than to unwanted visitors.  However, its speed and strength were 
valuable against most smaller non-human pests.  At formal events it 
wore a little harness and had "spurs" fitted.  Given that Midori was a 
well known priest of Wuru, few were willing to find out what the spurs 
were capable of.  Few, therefore, would risk poking there noses into 
other rooms unless asked.

>It's also hard to come by a large enough contingent of Renyu to 
>make much difference in warfare.

Still, three or four part trained renyu would be a formidable threat 
to any traveller, if they were owned by a bandit or local clan chief.

It is the depth of detail that makes adventures in tekumel so 
interesting, do you not agree?
-=Midori Ito=-
(known on other less interesting planes as David Bailey)
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
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Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.

//960

[Moderator's Note:  Paul Roser offers some more info on N'luss girdles, and]
[                   asks a couple of questions on deities.                 ]

Greetings all,

>>2.I seem to remember reading somewhere that N'luss maidens wear some
>>form of girdle - Mnor fur possibly? - that has some social/religious?
>>Significance. The trouble is I cannot remember where, or, more
>>importantly, what this signifies. I suspect it has some dire consequence
>>attached to the removal of said object.

>I can't remember where I wrote it either. The Sourcebook? The 
>character descriptions in Gardasiyal? Some article? It is true, 
>however, and the only dire consequence may be a large N'luss fist in 
>the snoot! Anybody else recall?

I can't locate the specific reference in the Sourcebook, but recall
mention of the N'luss maidens wearing the skins of slain enemies (for
some ritual, I think)... perhaps this is what you're thinking of?

A few questions of my own -

Besides Ghe (the Sun), what are the names of the other Ghatoni nature
dieties?

What is the N'luss name for Vimuhla? (or names if there are tribal
differences...) Do the N'luss also worship Chiteng?

best wishes,
Paul
-----
Chris Davis      Moderator, The Blue Room        blueroom@prin.edu
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Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.
